From Guesswork to Guaranteed: Measuring Legal Marketing Success

Main takeaways:

1. ROI is Everything: Law firms need a systematic way to measure their marketing ROI to avoid wasting thousands on ineffective strategies.
2. Vanity Metrics are Misleading: Likes, followers, and website traffic don’t always translate into revenue—focus on metrics that directly impact your bottom line.
3. Tracking Tools Matter: Using software like WhatConverts or CallRail ensures you’re accurately attributing leads and making data-driven marketing decisions.

As attorneys, you understand the importance of evidence in building a strong case. Today, we’re applying that same analytical mindset to your marketing efforts. With over 85 law firms trusting us with their growth, we’ve developed a systematic approach to measuring marketing success that cuts through the noise and focuses on what truly matters.

Too many law firms waste money on marketing without knowing what’s actually working. In this episode of The Optimized Law Firm Podcast, Patrick Carver, CEO of Constellation Marketing, shares a proven framework for measuring the success of your marketing efforts.

Timestamps:

1. Why Measuring Marketing ROI is Essential
   00:01:30 – 00:05:19
2. The Key Metrics Law Firms Should Track
   00:13:29 – 00:18:41
3. How to Set Up a Simple ROI Measurement System
   00:23:29 – 00:30:45

Transcription:

00:00:03:29 – 00:00:28:01

Patrick Carver

As attorneys, you understand the importance of evidence in building a case. Today, we’re going to apply that same analytical mindset to your marketing efforts. With 85 law firms trusting us with their growth. We’ve developed a systematic approach that is going to help you measure your success and cut through the noise and really focus on whether or not you’re getting a true ROI.

00:00:28:02 – 00:00:52:18

Patrick Carver

Welcome to the Optimize Law Firm podcast. I am your host, Patrick Carver. Super happy to have you join and I really appreciate you taking a moment out of your busy day to listen to this podcast. What we’re going to cover today is the is called From Guesswork to Guaranteed. We’re going to look at measuring your legal marketing success.

00:00:52:20 – 00:01:30:23

Patrick Carver

And I think this is a really impactful one that doesn’t really get enough time and energy focus from from lawyers, in my opinion. So this has been a key part of our success. Last year we had a 98.7 retention rate, and I strongly believe that a piece of that was our insistence on looking at our ROI every single month, showing our lawyers what they’re getting out of their investment in marketing so that it’s not this ambiguous, strenuous relationship between you and your marketing provider.

00:01:30:24 – 00:01:48:29

Patrick Carver

I’m going to show you how to do it. So let’s get started. All right. So kicking this off, why why do you want to measure this and why why is this an important thing as a as an attorney? So there’s there’s a couple of reasons why this is such a high stakes issue and why I think it’s essential.

00:01:48:29 – 00:02:11:08

Patrick Carver

And one of those things that doesn’t get nearly enough attention in in the whole scheme of marketing, Right. So much I think of the focus is like shiny object syndrome. People, you know, kind of bouncing from one thing to the next, always looking at, you know, kind of what’s the new thing? What can I do? And I see it a lot.

00:02:11:08 – 00:02:43:11

Patrick Carver

They bounce around from like video marketing to SEO to ads to different stuff. And what I chronic Lee see is that they don’t have a good layer or good understanding of how to actually assess the success. So some of the negative effects of this that you have probably seen or, you know, experience or you know are possible, you know, number one, you’re basically flying blind, right?

00:02:43:12 – 00:03:07:04

Patrick Carver

So you are every month paying thousands of dollars and you don’t really have a good measurement of success. And so at the end of the month, or just in your relationship with your marketing company, you know, you feel, you know, frustrated, like you don’t have a have the right information and that you’re basically paying money without any real way to know if it’s working.

00:03:07:04 – 00:03:50:05

Patrick Carver

And so you’re essentially trusting the marketing company. And that often ends ends poorly from from my experience. And, you know, for me, this is like the number one reason lawyers hate marketing companies is because this this disconnect in the investment towards the the output, the end of that being the return on investment. So beyond just having this dissatisfaction between you and your marketing provider always, you know, feeling a lack of confidence and frustration, you know, there’s some a couple of other reasons why this is, you know, something that you want to avoid.

00:03:50:07 – 00:04:12:19

Patrick Carver

Number one thing is is wasted budget. So, you know, depending on your practice area, the lead costs can go from anywhere from like $25 to over 300 PI is, you know, even further. And if you’re in a I mean, really anywhere, it doesn’t really matter what city you’re in. The cost of those leads are going to be enormous.

00:04:12:21 – 00:04:32:11

Patrick Carver

So, you know, I don’t have to tell you, if you’re in the PI space and you’ve done any marketing, I mean, you know how cutthroat it is and how expensive it is to get those leads. But even in other areas where it’s cheaper, like maybe immigration or bankruptcy, something like that, you know, I mean, we’re still talking real money, right?

00:04:32:11 – 00:05:19:03

Patrick Carver

And you want to be you want to know if those how much you’re paying per lead. And so if you if you don’t have a good, reliable system to see where your clients are coming from, how they’re getting attributed to you, and ultimately which channels or which efforts are producing an ROI, it just all ends up getting into this big wash and like you have no idea which one’s actually working, which one’s not working, and that is going to lead you to waste money and ultimately not scale the efforts that are working or keep you doing the efforts that are not working.

00:05:19:06 – 00:05:55:07

Patrick Carver

So it’s so important. Why isn’t everybody doing it? My experience, there’s a few common pitfalls that stop this from happening. I think, you know, we see a whole big spectrum of, you know, different people in terms of of how much they do this. And it it tends to, you know, correlate with like business sophistication. Right. And the longer you’re in, you know, running your firm, the more time and energy you put into this where at the beginning of of your firm, it’s, you know, you’re not as concerned and you’re just you know, as long as there’s like cases coming in and money in the bank, you know, you feel good about it.

00:05:55:07 – 00:06:21:27

Patrick Carver

But then as you start to invest more in thinking about ways to scale, you want to be more strategic about this and use that analytical mindset that you you bring to the courtroom. So a couple of things that I think get in the way of of lawyers doing this. Number one, a focus on vanity metrics. So for me, this is the classic case is one of the big box marketing companies out there.

00:06:21:27 – 00:06:46:28

Patrick Carver

And I’m you know, I won’t name names, but it rhymes with rhymes with Shine Galore. They’re going to give you a report. Typically. But this is common with, you know, all sorts of other market agencies. You know, they’re going to give you a report and it is largely going to be self-serving. They are going to put the things in there that look good.

00:06:47:01 – 00:07:14:03

Patrick Carver

And, you know, I don’t think a lot of the time it’s like directly, directly manipulative or like they’re trying to necessary pull one over on you, but they’re going to the easier things to track are things like likes followers page views, you know traffic even top end leads. Right. And that’s better. Having leads is better, but ultimately it doesn’t get you where you want to go.

00:07:14:03 – 00:07:40:03

Patrick Carver

And so these kind of seduce you into thinking that, you know, your performance is better than than it might be. And, you know, you kind of get into this situation where you’re like, am I crazy? Because I get this report every month that says I’m doing amazing, but the reality is I’m still getting the same five cases a month that I got before I hired this marketing company.

00:07:40:06 – 00:08:14:01

Patrick Carver

So that really is what fractures the relationship, in my opinion, with law firms and marketing companies. So that’s a big one. I would also say creating the, quote, perfect system. And I see owners getting into this occasionally and what they’re trying to do is like is have perfect attribution for every single lead that comes in. And in my experience, that’s basically impossible.

00:08:14:03 – 00:08:43:07

Patrick Carver

So we have what I would consider a best in class approach, and we’re using what converts we we get. We have data down to every single lead. And so for me, that is really, really valuable where we can tell the source in the meeting for every single lead we know if it’s coming from ads, if it’s coming from ads, is it PPC, is it LSA, so on and so on.

00:08:43:09 – 00:09:36:09

Patrick Carver

That being said, there are limitations to this software or call rail because not really worth getting into in this specific episode, but they run on cookies and they are not precise. And so factors like are you using first click attribution or last click attribution? How good is that software? Even if the software is is good and we feel like our choice is the best choice in the market, like the most accurate, we still find examples that are demonstrably incorrect where someone has, you know, come on to the website, they found us through Google or something like that and yet it’s showing that the source was was from somewhere else.

00:09:36:11 – 00:10:04:06

Patrick Carver

So lawyers can get into this trap of trying to drill down and get details on every single lead. And so they end up going on like a goose chase, trying to find out all of it. And so my biggest piece of advice here to think about is, you know, you want to think about is solving for the as much as you can, but understanding that it’s not going to be perfect.

00:10:04:06 – 00:10:39:06

Patrick Carver

Right? So you want to get this data and use it to guide your efforts. But at the end of the day, don’t worry about it being 100% perfect because literally you cannot get it get there. It’s just not possible. In my mind, the other piece of this that I would steer clear of is over now is over analysis of some of the measurement metrics I believe there is a limit to the usefulness of the amount of to the the data that you’re going to get.

00:10:39:09 – 00:11:04:28

Patrick Carver

Now, it gets more valuable as your lead volume goes up. But I often see people who are getting like 50 leads a month or, you know, 25 or something like that, and they’re spending hours each month, you know, trying to dissect like why are we got, you know, ten leads from SEO one month and then 12 leads the next month.

00:11:05:01 – 00:11:31:11

Patrick Carver

And for me, that’s like basically overkill. That’s more something that would be done or should be done by the marketing agency and not so much the attorney, because numbers like that, there’s just really like it’s out it’s it’s not enough to be statistically significant. And so sometimes we have these conversations where it’s like, well, our, you know, our leads went from ten to 13 to 12 to to 15.

00:11:31:17 – 00:11:53:22

Patrick Carver

You know, what’s the reason for that fluctuation? And I want to know why it went, you know, up and down each month. And like, you know, the answer is that just, you know, within the, you know, level of statistical significance. So, you know, there really just may not be like a lot of reasoning for it. And so it’s, for me, a fool’s errand to try and go lead a ton of analysis.

00:11:53:22 – 00:12:19:11

Patrick Carver

Now, as you get more of those leads, then it becomes more and more important because you can actually see trends. Right. And if we zoom out, the bigger picture for all of this is like, you want to make good decisions with your money, with your investment. And you know, in point you’re marketing in the right direction. You don’t need to know the nuance in between small little ups and downs like that.

00:12:19:11 – 00:12:51:08

Patrick Carver

You basically want to see the bigger trends. That’s where you’re going to get the most value and what you know most value in your time and most value in your money. And then the last thing, the last big mistake I see here is that, you know, the the data never gets connected to the business outcomes and so that’s basically an extension of what I just said, which is that if you spend all your time kind of nit picking like, you know, those minutia parts of it, you are never going to then connect that that data to your overall business data.

00:12:51:08 – 00:13:29:08

Patrick Carver

Right? And so I’ve had this experience where, you know, we spend so much time going through and trying to pinpoint where where the ROI is, that by the time we get to the end of it and we actually have our conclusions where one channel is like significantly outperforming the other, it’s like that data never gets acted on and we can see that one channel is producing more clients at a lower cost per acquisition, and yet that never gets acted on because it’s like everybody’s burnt out from going through this whole exercise of trying to attribute where where those folks came from.

00:13:29:11 – 00:13:53:00

Patrick Carver

All right. So let’s talk key performance indicators, what those are and how you’re going to set it up, and then we’ll follow that up with a practical way to implement this. No matter where you are in the lifecycle of your law firm. So the first thing that I always focus on with our clients is going to be ROI by channel.

00:13:53:03 – 00:14:20:09

Patrick Carver

So I like to start big and broad here and then we’re going to go into a little bit of deeper detail with SEO and ads and other other channels. The basic framework here that we’re going to follow is we want to know what the cost per acquisition is for leads and ultimately customers in that channel. We want to know, you know, what the volume is in that channel and then what the quality is in that channel.

00:14:20:12 – 00:14:58:00

Patrick Carver

Those three things are going to really give us the best insight as to whether this is a winner or a loser in terms of marketing. So with the customer acquisition cost, was that mean to me basically the cost, the total cost of of the marketing, right? So if you’re paying a marketing company, it’s going to be some of the service cost and then it’s going to be if you’re doing ads, right, it’s going to be that ad cost of it’s just SEO, you’re just going to fix the, the portion of the service cost that’s roughly equivalent to to the SEO efforts.

00:14:58:00 – 00:15:20:13

Patrick Carver

And so then in the end, you’re you’re going to look at your clients, right? That came from those channels, how much value monetary value came in from those? And then compare that to what you spent on the channel. And that’s how, you know, we we derive return on investment. And we can also look we can also figure out a multiple of that.

00:15:20:13 – 00:15:56:15

Patrick Carver

So you know, your multiple for SEO is ten X or five x or two x. We want to know that the quality and volume of those and so that’s going to go into whether or not, you know, this is like how valuable this channel is because we might get a false read on this because if we do a report and then at the end we, we determine that SEO brought us five cases and, you know, $10,000 each.

00:15:56:18 – 00:16:28:03

Patrick Carver

Well, we only spent $200 on SEO and, you know, we got $50,000 or something, something like that in, you know, coming back to us. All right. So after we’ve established the customer acquisition cost, we then want to figure out, is this significant, Can we scale it, are we at our ceiling, etc.? And that’s going to give us much better insight as to whether we want to double down on this or reduce it, etc..

00:16:28:06 – 00:17:08:07

Patrick Carver

We want to understand the quality of those leads and also the the volume. So with volume, we want to know how many leads it actually took to get It will help to get the customer acquisition costs. And so the point here is that, you know, your customer acquisition cost for a channel may look great, but if you only had one client come through there, it may not may not really be scalable or it may be something that isn’t repeatable, but over and over.

00:17:08:07 – 00:17:40:22

Patrick Carver

And so you kind of get this like false positive that a channel, you know, look looking at like, oh, the customer acquisition cost is amazing. So a great example, this is referral marketing, right? Really doesn’t cost anything, just you building and maintaining relationships. And so yes, there is a tremendous ROI on that. But in this context, you’re looking for things that are scalable that that can compound and you can put a dollar in and get get more out and and grow.

00:17:40:22 – 00:18:10:28

Patrick Carver

It can’t really do that with your referral marketing. You can to some extent, but not really in a in a great way. You also want to look at it from from quality, right? You might have good, good, good cash, good customer acquisition cost, but maybe you know the quality of these clients is really bad. Maybe it’s, you know, those people are only paying a thousand bucks per month and you’re getting a higher percentage of high paying clients from another channel.

00:18:11:01 – 00:18:41:15

Patrick Carver

So even though, like your customer acquisition cost may be better in one, it may be better to scale another one. So factor all of this in because it’s not a clear cut like yes or no, we’re going to drive. We’re going to drive our decision making by customer acquisition cost per per channel. So I like to look at it more in this holistic way because I think it makes sense and it actually then is connecting business data to business outcomes.

00:18:41:17 – 00:19:08:07

Patrick Carver

And you’re going to get, you know, really the best performance by doing it this way. So let’s take a couple minutes to wrap the metrics part of this discussion, going through SEO ads and some other channels. So SEO metrics, I would for the most lawyers, I would just say don’t even really focus on them that much or focus on them to the extent of how many, how many leads is it producing, how much, how much businesses is it actually producing?

00:19:08:10 – 00:19:33:18

Patrick Carver

And, you know, doing that is better than than nothing or trying to become an SEO expert because, you know, this would fall under over scrutinizing details and kind of losing track of the big picture, which is basically is this marketing company bringing me new business that’s attributable to their work. But for the sake of argument, let’s talk SEO metrics.

00:19:33:24 – 00:19:58:03

Patrick Carver

So I always think about this as like an upside down pyramid or like a funnel. And so at the top of that funnel are going to be keywords, image, ranking. Am I visible on the internet for phrases that keywords that that I want to be found for, particularly of high value are the ones on the first page. Because if you are not on the first page, you’re basically not getting found.

00:19:58:06 – 00:20:23:04

Patrick Carver

So I focus on how many attorney or lawyer keywords, high content keywords where people are actually searching for an attorney and not just background information on a lawyer or something. How many of those do you have Then as we go one step down, we’re looking at how much traffic those generate. And so you can Google Analytics, you can look at how much organic traffic you’re generating from search engines.

00:20:23:06 – 00:20:51:12

Patrick Carver

Finally, you’re looking at the number of leads that the SEO traffic produced is going to be the best pure look at how your SEO is performing. But I would really focus on the number of leads coming in and ultimately you can then look at cost per lead because generally what we see is that SEO is going to be better on a cost per lead basis than ads or other other methods.

00:20:51:15 – 00:21:11:06

Patrick Carver

So on the ads, it’s a little bit different. The things we focus on there at the top are going to be lead volume. We we do look at like cost per click and other stuff like that. But that’s, you know, kind of getting in the weeds and more something that a a marketing person or advertising strategist is going to scrutinize.

00:21:11:09 – 00:21:35:24

Patrick Carver

They don’t really think lawyers need to get into them. Believe that we’re looking at cost per lead. And then finally we are looking at conversion rate. And so that’s going to tell us how much where we’re, you know, having to pay to get that get that lead ultimately that client to you. And the conversion rate is valuable, too, because that’s going to allow us to know, is the landing page working?

00:21:35:26 – 00:22:01:29

Patrick Carver

Do we have the right kind of copy? Are our lawyers actually following up and providing a good, good intake experience and doing a good job of of closing? Those are really important because that’s just going to improve the value out of those ads. And then when it comes to other channels like we’ll say directories, billboards, social ads, organic, social, any of that stuff, it’s really the same framework, right?

00:22:01:29 – 00:22:24:16

Patrick Carver

Like we ultimately know, well, how much we’re paying for it, how many leads it produced, and then ultimately how many clients it got us. And if you know the value of those clients, you know, that’s 10,000, $20,000. You then compare that to what you spent on that channel. You’re going to be able to know what your cost per acquisition is per channel.

00:22:24:16 – 00:23:03:23

Patrick Carver

And that’s when really the magic happens and you can see, okay, so I’m, you know, getting clients for $200 a piece on my end law, I’m getting them for $1,000 apiece and so on. This is where you can then connect that that data back to your business outcomes and see which one has the best value and work with your marketing provider to figure out which of those are most scalable and which ones where have you reach the ceiling on them or not?

00:23:03:26 – 00:23:29:09

Patrick Carver

All right, let’s dig in to the final section of this podcast, and we’re going to talk about a practical ROI analysis, this framework. So a lot of, you know, $10 words there, but really where, you know, the whole point of this is like, how can you actually implement this? And, you know, not go crazy trying to set it all up and do it?

00:23:29:12 – 00:24:15:18

Patrick Carver

You know, I talk about it like that because it’s a complex topic. It’s super complex from a technical standpoint because you have to organize a handful of software tools. So, you know, no offense, but the average lawyer is not super technically savvy. But I mean, just straight up, it’s it’s challenging for people who are very tech savvy because we spent, you know, almost a year testing a handful of providers and app it, configuring it to get it where we wanted, where we feel really confident about, you know, about those that that data coming in off of these leads.

00:24:15:18 – 00:24:48:00

Patrick Carver

And so now I think we have, you know, really a best in class experience, you know, across across the spectrum of law firm marketing agencies. So the first thing is we want to set up your measurement infrastructure, the the gold standard for me is going to be a software called well, convert call. Real is also sufficient. There’s other ones out there that you can you can apply and something is is better than nothing.

00:24:48:00 – 00:25:18:08

Patrick Carver

But I would recommend what converts. We have found it to be more accurate than the other tools that are out there and on the market. But at the end of the day, getting something is better than nothing and a basic Google sheet or within your CRM, having a field attached to a lead, coming in and writing down where that lead came from is is going to be super helpful.

00:25:18:08 – 00:25:44:04

Patrick Carver

And so outside of having like a technical solution to solve this, you just want to get in the habit and train your intake team to always be asking, Hey, how did you hear about us and writing that down? And that’s, you know, kind of that to to checkpoint system is, is going to be the best because like I said at the beginning, you know, this stuff is never 100% perfect.

00:25:44:04 – 00:26:07:14

Patrick Carver

And so you were going to get people who say, oh, I found you on Google. Well, it could be ads, it could be LSA, it could be a variety of things. And so you you know, you want to just do your best to try and get as much data as you can. But again, don’t go nuts trying to do this.

00:26:07:16 – 00:26:30:24

Patrick Carver

So you want to get just something down, some sort of process in place and, you know, start with the Google sheet, whatever, and then make it more complex as you go putting it into CRM. So we’re at the point now where we have this software and we can actually use systems to send that data directly in and tie it to lead within the CRM system.

00:26:30:24 – 00:26:52:01

Patrick Carver

So it’s you know, we have a very advanced approach in my opinion, but it saves the law firms a lot of time and reduces some of that need to track every single lead. So we’re we’re giving them a ton of data and then, you know, you can utilize that data in like your reporting, your CRM reporting and stuff like that, but just get something started.

00:26:52:04 – 00:27:19:13

Patrick Carver

I recommend doing this for all leads, right? Because that’s going to give you the best view on what’s working, what’s not working, high quality, low quality, all that’s all that sort of thing. All right. So once you have that set up, we want to move on to number two, which is the ROI calculation process. And I think you probably figured it out by now from how I measure this, you know, with what I’ve talked about earlier.

00:27:19:13 – 00:27:46:10

Patrick Carver

But just to kind of go over it again, you want to figure out what your marketing costs are, right? So, you know, your marketing costs, whether that’s the service fee, the agency, the ads you’re doing, direct mail, whatever you you have a cost for that. You know this, right? And so you then want to compare your monthly costs for that versus the number of leads that came in from that.

00:27:46:10 – 00:28:14:12

Patrick Carver

And then ultimately the number of clients from that, that’s universal. You can do that, whether it’s SEO ads, any other channels. So the good news is that part is extremely simple and you just, you know, you can figure that out really, really easy. Now, the thing I will warn you about, especially with the CRM, is that the phrase that most often gets tossed around with CRM is garbage.

00:28:14:12 – 00:28:42:11

Patrick Carver

In garbage out. And this is 100% true. If you not have the data automatically sinking to the CRM or your intake person is doing it asking where they came from 50% of the time, like all of this goes out the window, right? And so beyond any technical solution, I would favor you using like a Google sheet and doing it, you know, and a caveman approach if you can get it done all the time.

00:28:42:11 – 00:29:07:16

Patrick Carver

Right? And you spend more of your time on the execution side because that’s really what’s going to make or break this in the long run. And setting those standards is, I think, essential to getting the best results and getting as much value out of this as possible. The final part of this number three is going to be your implementation steps, right?

00:29:07:16 – 00:29:33:28

Patrick Carver

And so we have our sheet or we have our CRM, we have our tracking software, and then we’ve got like our our process for doing that reconciliation. Final part is going to be doing this setting up a monthly reconciliation where you then go and take your data, your lead data and compare that to your cost data. Then you have you have the big picture.

00:29:34:00 – 00:29:57:13

Patrick Carver

I highly, highly recommend set up a calendar event or recurring calendar event for yourself to go in and do this on like the first or second of of every single month and, and just get that data from your margin provider and then cross-reference that with your list or what we do in our agency is we take that off the plate of of our lawyers entirely.

00:29:57:16 – 00:30:26:03

Patrick Carver

They will just send us a client list and we go in and affix the the data, the source and medium data on to those clients. And so we actually do all of that reconciliation for them. I think that, you know, good agencies will do this. And so really takes a lot of the frustration and time off of your plate trying to go track all these people down because we have you know, we know where they came from.

00:30:26:03 – 00:30:45:18

Patrick Carver

We have their email, we have their phone number, and then we have a source and medium along with it. And so our clients who get the best results and really, you know, feel like they’re getting the most value are those ones who give us that baseline of information as CRM exporter, just a list that they’ll share with us on on a monthly basis.

00:30:45:20 – 00:31:09:21

Patrick Carver

And then the final part of this is just the like a quarterly or bi monthly type of strategy adjustment process. And so, you know, you you may not get a huge amount of insight from one single month. And going back to the point I made earlier, you know, you may see from one month to the next that there’s some sort of movement right?

00:31:09:23 – 00:31:31:09

Patrick Carver

Where you go from 10 to 12 leads on one channel. You can’t really get a lot of good insight from that. But if you see over, you know, three months that, you know, your leads are consistently falling off on a channel or they’re growing, that’s really what you want to look for. Those like 60 day, 90 day type of trends.

00:31:31:09 – 00:32:04:18

Patrick Carver

And then at, you know, that quarter or that six month period, you can really take stock of of all of this stuff that you then figured out and make it actionable and connect the the marketing to your business outcomes and and make decisions based on that. All right so we we talked about a lot today you know all built around how you can have a good relationship with your marketing agency by having a clear, clear view of ROI.

00:32:04:25 – 00:32:31:15

Patrick Carver

To me, this is like the most misunderstood, stood and underutilized piece of the marketing ecosystem. We just see it over and over again where folks coming into us are not doing this right or they’re not doing it at all. So take a minute, focus on it. And I promise that by going through this process, you will find your way to a much, much better relationship with your marketing.

00:32:31:15 – 00:32:52:03

Patrick Carver

And ultimately it’s going to be able to help you drive a lot more revenue, which is what it’s all about. Growing your law firm and getting you to your financial goals. That’s it for today. I super appreciate you taking the time to listen to this. I know you have tons of options and there’s about 1,000,001 other marketing agencies out there.

00:32:52:03 – 00:33:13:26

Patrick Carver

So thanks for stopping by. Appreciate it. If you have any questions about this, give me a shout Patrica go constellation dot com or reach out to us on our website. Go constellation dot com. We have a very soft sell process. Happy to cover this stuff because I’m a big marketing nerd without, you know, a big, big heavy sales pitch.

00:33:13:26 – 00:33:19:22

Patrick Carver

So reach out please please. And happy to help. That’s it. Thanks. Have a great day.